I'm so sick of people whing about bad PUGs

| Monday, April 19, 2010
We get it, there are bad PUGs. People play badly. They pull slowly. The pull too quickly. They say stupid stuff. There's nothing new to be said. Nothing to contribute.

Alright so I'm on my hunter in Ahn'Kahet...

The warrior tank is pulling slowly. He's grabbed one spider at the start and we've killed it. Actually... the healer pulled a spider and I misdirected it to the tank. Then the tank stared at the other spiders for a while. Maybe he was trying to figure out how to pull or waiting for the other to patrol across. The healer told him to go, so he went, and we had too many spiders.

Tank died. We all died.

The healer started attacking the tank. Claimed he had SP gear. Clearly that would be bad, so once we got back I inspected to find this offensive SP gear on a tank. I found: one pair of boots, which were likely chosen for the high amount of stamina on them. He was in mostly greens, a blue or two, and no defense. Seemed normal for a tank new to Northrend. He'd pulled badly. That had nothing to do with one pair of SP boots or defense rating.

We carried on. People didn't attack the spell flingers first. The tank didn't seem to be having health spikes. I suspect it helps when the healer heals him, rather than telling him to hurry.

We go to the left path. This is the area with a group near the ledge which can be skipped, a group to the right, and a patrol of the same going back and forth. It's best to wait for the pat to come closer, then pull it back.

Instead the tank charged the left group. Eventually the pat came across and we had that too. My trap caught one, but this was a bad situation. Somehow the other group came too. We all died.

I assume the tank left out of frustration. It's not fun to wipe twice and get flamed. I brought up that this might be why there are so few tanks: douchebags in randoms who flame them for learning. That led to more arguing and the claim the warriors are faceroll and only scrubs wear SP. I'm not sure how either of those were relevant to rushing into bad pulls.

A new warrior joined, which much better gear. He promptly pulled the remainder of the hallway. So much for the "gear implies skill" hypothesis. First boss went well, except for the healer standing away from the boss, meaning that thunderclap wasn't removing the adds. On the first pull past the ghoul stampede the warrior somehow got the giant patrol, then got feared into adds, and then more adds. So much for gearscore pressing the berserker rage button for him. He screwed up one more pull before skipping the third boss and going straight to the end.

On the last boss the rogue freaked out and started yelling at us to stop attacking him. He was last on the damage. Turns out he'd never done the place before. I imagine suddenly being attacked by your own party could be a problem if its totally unexpected. Thankfully my hunter was highest, so I was immune to flaming, not that I would have taken any shit anyway.

I apologized for the bickering I'd done, explained that I hated seeing new tanks get flamed, wished the rogue and warlock a nice day, and left. The healer had already left after saying he hated us and didn't res the warlock. I don't remember if he ever dropped any totems.

I'm glad I didn't level my paladin or warrior from 1-80. The pause at 70 to get overgeared was a lot of help when leveling in instances. I never had to deal with gear flaming. Mistakes were mistakes, rather than absolute proof that I was irredeemably terrible.


caerphoto said...

Well I did have plans to level a warrior (again - I deleted the last one after he sat at level 20 for a month, to make room for a hunter) as tank, but my experiences as a DK tank were rather off-putting. That and my experiences levelling my hunter (currently 48) and the abuse the lowbie tanks get (sometimes justified - lots of "I queue tank to get groups quicker").

I may just level a Fury warrior instead. Or Arms. I don't know the difference tbh.

Anonymous said...

My Prot tank is at level 28 and tbh I will never set in foot inside a pug with him, no way no how. I dont need the grief or the abuse. Its bad enough on my hunter where I only do 3k dps in a hc, let alone tanking, which I have never done and I am only beginning to understand. I am playing with a friends and guildies, learning my trade that way. We wipe I say sorry and learn from it (maybe even get told how to improve without expletives). In Hc pugs now I have tuned out all the garbage that comes through party chat, I just watch for tank instructions and healers saying "aggro" or "help" so I can stick a distracting shot in their attacker and run it back to the tank. Then ignore the recount that shows I am third dps again.

Doug said...

I was healing, and the rogue would "never" attack what the main tank was attacking. The rogue was doing 900dps. I used all my mana on every pull to keep the offtank rogue alive. After the 5th time, I said something. Nothing changed. I let the rogue die twice. I said something again. The main tank told me to do my job and heal. I left group, requed, all the new group dps was doing 4K dps. We got it done in 13 minutes.

Gevlon said...

Tanking above all needs confidence. Or at least honesty.

If a tank says that he is new to the instance or lacks gear, so it will be slower, people (except utter retards) understand.

I'm leveling now for ganking, been in an instance when every pull had a sap and a trap because he was new for tanking. No one said anything, besides a moonkin who damaged less then him.

If he acts like a pro and fails, he deserves flaming

Hana said...

Gevlon's quite right. I have no problem working with a tank who's upfront about being new at things or brings up that his gear might not be up to snuff or that he doesn't know the instance. But he has to say something or I won't know better.

It's when the tank doesn't know what he's doing, never says a word in chat, and does things badly that gets to me. I did an SM Cath run with a tank who had plainly never done the instance before because he pulled Morgraine before we finished clearing the cathedral, even though the party was telling him DON'T DO IT because we could totally see him inching himself towards the boss in preparation to pull.

We wiped, and the tank still didn't say a word in chat, though at least he didn't pull Morgraine again until the room was cleared. :P

Klepsacovic said...

@Andy: Fury uses two weapons and the target doesn't bleed as much. I'd not be to put off by the DK tanking exprience. They have a stigma attached to them, and in heroics where block is useful, the lack of it hurts.

@Anonymous: You're not really a tank until you have a deep-seated hatred for DPS. And healers. And those tanks who brag about how they only play with guildies.

@Doug: That was the worst tank ever. Not because of aggro, but because of mindset. Good tanks are telepathically binded with the healer and know to let obnoxious DPS die.

@Gevlon: People will understand, but how they understand varies. Often they just drop the group. We all know the story of the people who expect a tank with a 5k GS to tank an easy heroic like UK.

@Hana: I do dislike the silent bads. If you're going to be silent, at least be so good that you don't have the time to type.

Ngita said...

Andys Arms>Fury for leveling. Their has even been some recent "complaints" that prot is better then both ie revenge spam.

But I don't regard having players who don't know the instance or how easy it it is to gear yourself as being bad, for example you can make northrend Greens with blacksmithing that use whopping 3-5 bars per piece to reach the def cap.
Healing a prot pally tanking with a cloth chest, 12 levels old caster sheild and 4 +spell damage drops? regard it as a challenge. Did anybody die? no, did we complete the instance? Yes.

I tanked instances/pvp'ed on my warrior bank alt from 20-80 a few months back and had a a ball. I am finally leveling my dk at the moment and I am currently at 78 and 46 triumph emblems after tanking Halls of stone last night and s I mentioned my last bad group was in nexus, even then we completed the instance and I never died, all I did was put the 2 offenders on ignore before we even reached the first boss.

Their is a problem time, from your first heroic till you reach 4k gear-score or so is a horror for a fresh tank. But don't be put off from tanking or pugging by a few experience by others.

Eus said...

Being a healer since I started almost 4 yrs ago with Eus, I have to agree with each and every comment made here. To me, it is far easier to "be in sync" with your tank being a healer when you are in a guild together or however you interact everyday together. It is another to pug and try to "dance the dance." The tanks I've had the distinct pleasure of running with in my guild for as long as we've been together, I gotta tell ya, it is amazing. You both each know your push limit. You both feel as one when running. It can be so much so, that in face, your dps can be the same way.

And let's face it, some people are just cut out to be tanks, some are not. If you are the tank, be proud and take leadership and show confidence, not ignorance. Show that you know how to "know your roll" and show those mobs to shut their mouth and you can call them jabronis or whatever. If a tank or a healer (depending on which toon I am running on) informs the group that this is their first time ever in the instance, or just even if it is their first time on a different toon in a certain instance, I would rather hear pure honesty above all. Respect can go a long way all around. Just being courteous goes a long way.

While I was on SAN-AD US the other night, I got in Eusy and decided to run a pug. We had this tank, ohmylawd, awful. Now, mind you, we were mid-teen levels and we got deadmines, but still. This dude decided to need on every single thing, blue or green drop, it did not matter. He needed on the ring that would have benefited my toon, but I did not say anything. But, as the run went on, it got worse. He still needed on everything and at the end I had enough and needed and won the cloak. The cloak would not have worked out for Eusy, but I turn around and gave it to the rogue who was so grateful for it. Unforunatley, for every decent, well-rounded player there is going to be a A-typical asshole along with the player who really does not know their class because either they never took the time to research it or have not had the pleasure of friends to guide them.

Be thankful for those times you have with people who you feel in tune with when you run, because when you get the pugs from hell, it will make you appreciate those moments even more.

Pazi said...

I recently got my second paladin to 80 (this time on horde side) again as tank, never respecced. I know every dungeon/raid in this game except icc (only 8 bosses down), I played every tank-class - in short I know how to tank and I'm very good at it. With some wine/gin/rum/whatever alcohol you prefer and a weekend of time you will be able to live through the hell that is getting your first 2 t9-pieces from emblems. After that even a t10-warrior couldnt steel aggro anymore. Anub rewarded my endurence with his shield the first time I went to toc10, I tanked him with half blue items and the shield from VH normal (ilvl176).
Still, my lvl77-warrior (also prot, never respecced) will level to 80 while doing the cooking/fishing-daily and nothing else (and after that respeccing to fury or arms) because no amount of alcohol would overcome the soulcrushing experience that is trying to gear up a protwarrior via LFD. No way.

Unknown said...

Even 5k GS tanks get harassed every so often in heroics as well. It's not just the newbies.

If some stupid idiot is in your group, there's bound to be trouble a foot.

Yes, it is frustrating and yes it is unfair to be/ feel abused by pugs but... everyone feels the heat from time to time. It's not just tanks. It's new DPS, it's new healers.

Jack asses are jack asses regardless of your "job".

Keep your chin up because not every pug is going to treat you like this. Be honest and polite about being new to your role.

Keep it up & you'll be a Pro tank in no time :D

<3 Fuu

Real Big Kitty said...

My tank was my newest to level up. I was running with another Blood DK, and one of us clearly needed to be in charge of aggro. I wanted to learn more about tanking (as a primary Guild healer and DPS)so it was an interesting learning experience. I had mostly decent PuGs. The only two douchebags were both GOGOG Holy Paladins, that berated me for shitty tanking, but Recount showed I had healed as much as they had, and they had suspiciously high DPS for healers.

I think I am confident enough to tank and stand up for myself, and have no problems telling the healer to let a jackass DIAF if they don't play as a team member. There have even been a couple of VERY helpful people with DK alts that gave good sdvice. Tanking in LFG has actually been better than healing...

We Fly Spitfires said...

I gotta agree with Gevlon on this. As a tank, I can say that being honest is the best policy and if you just admit that you've never done the zone people, people usually understand. Plus, it's definitely a role that needs confidence as basically you're the focal point for the entire group.

Nergz said...

Due to my first and still main character being a warrior I understood this treat a great deal as I leveled as prot.

Can remember buying the saronite tanking gear and running normals to get myself def capped for tanking heroics, and after all that work, i got a day of abuse for being undergeared or not good enough. Luckily i was leveling with a friend of mine who was a top end raider so gave me tips and support. Even now i get abuse for small mistakes, I only just tanked my first HoR heroic today after many attempts and wipes/arguments. Felt some achievement, perhaps more than when i pugged 6/12 icc earlier in the day.

Would have to say though gearscore is completely irrelevant while tanking due to slots like cloaks/trinkets/rings. I have tanked 3/4 of icc with only 5k gearscore yet see most groups demanding 5.5. At lower levels its even more innacurate.

Steve said...

The only tank spec I've ever had problems with was DK's... Pally and Druid tanks I get, and always was able to do well, but yeah, I know what you mean about people just flaming tanks. Healers get that too. But I think the reason there are so few tanks in WotLK once you hit 70 is because most of the Death Knights immediately get turned off because they are no longer gods like in BC. That and the need for defense gear, and many tanks not realizing it, assume tanking is too hard and bail.

Anonymous said...

My main is an ICC geared resto druid. so I just cross my fingers and hope I can heal through whatever gets thrown my way. Almost always I can manage, but the one thing I can't heal is a tank (or anyone else) who is out of range. Hey! I'm drinking/looting back here, wait one sec! A wipe will lose you more time than waiting till I get in range.

Hahni said...

@Fubaar--I have to disagree. Nobody, but NOBODY, gets the same amount of grief that a newbie tank gets from lfd. I've leveled up 2 healers and now a hunter (prime flame material there) and have never experienced a fraction of the griefing that tanks go through.

Sure there are notable reasons--the tank who shows up without a shield, fury specced, and missing 5 points in his talent tree is an easy target and deserves the hassle. But hte new tank, or the one who just isn't doing whatever the dps deems' the right way", it's still open season.

The absolute main reason I'll never level a tank through lfd. Too much anonymous ass-hatery for me, tyvm.

Klepsacovic said...

@Hahni: You might want to still give it a try. Dealing with the worst of people is excellent training, if it doesn't make you delete the character. Or if you can't quite put up with it, pretend they're DK NPCs, the ones that are always mocking us weak mortals and that sort of thing.

thomas said...

i quit a few months ago. i played a warlock for a few years, decided to try tanking so i went prot warrior.

i coud take the flaming and it was quite heavy at times, but there are no tanks because people are dicks.

i went from ranged caster to melee tank. the difference is immense. I suddenly realised i didnt actually understand all the dynamics of a boss. my thoughts were just sit back and pewpew.

anyway, lfg tanking put me off quite a bit. i will come back but i doubt i will go back to tanking. maybe i will be a pally. you could flame and bubblehearth.

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