DKs and Hysteria

| Wednesday, April 7, 2010
The sky is falling and hitting DKs on the head.

Short version: It looks like blood is turning into prot, frost into fury, and unholy into arms.

Also, I'm feeling a bit lazy and may have poisoned my lungs during work. Protip: Don't cut plastic in a poorly ventilated area, not only are the particles bad, but the heat of the blade will trigger some reactions to make a bigger variety of bad stuff. If I die, I want Iapetes to have my blog.

Iapetes: i havent seen this yet
Iapetes: DK tanking or something
klepsacovic: the weird build?
klepsacovic: blood with obliterate
Iapetes: uhh
Iapetes: no?
Iapetes: that
klepsacovic: oh
klepsacovic: nvm
Iapetes: i dont know anything about this weird build
klepsacovic: woah
klepsacovic: blood will be the only tanking tree?
klepsacovic: Q fucking Q
klepsacovic: damn
klepsacovic: I don't like blood
Iapetes: wow yeah
klepsacovic: it feels weird
Iapetes: this is weird
Iapetes: i am pretty shocked tbh
klepsacovic: yea
klepsacovic: it feels like they're saying "yep, we totally blew it, oops"
klepsacovic: I mean, that's probably the biggest reversal of design intent that I've ever seen
klepsacovic: well, next to some of the vanilla to BC stuff
klepsacovic: I wish they could have gone with more of a feral-type thing
klepsacovic: so the base of the tree gives the universal talents which give flavor
klepsacovic: and then further up they break off a bit more and you have to pick tanking or DPS
Iapetes: yeah
Iapetes: this is pretty huge
Iapetes: hopefully they make blood more interesting then :p
klepsacovic: well, I imagine I'll get used to it
klepsacovic: but damn
klepsacovic: I feel liek this is going to be something we talk about five years from now in the "Let's kill reanimated Sargeras" expansion
klepsacovic: "Back in my day, DKs had THREE tanking trees, true story"
klepsacovic: and no one will believe it, because it sounds crazy
Iapetes: lol
Iapetes: i wonder what it must be like
Iapetes: to start this game in LK
klepsacovic: I mean, it's like telling people that ret used to be crap for dps
Iapetes: and not know that paladins once sucked as dps or tanks, or only know through second hand information
klepsacovic: how old are we? Should we start talking about the Great War and how back in our day you could buy a house for a nickle?
Iapetes: haha
Iapetes: does this also mean the end of blood dps?
Iapetes: or is it like feral
Iapetes: i guess it means the end of blood dps, weird
klepsacovic: blood DPS felt weird to me
klepsacovic: too much self-healing
Iapetes: wont be a big crits tree anymore though
Iapetes: big 2h swings
Iapetes: no more
klepsacovic: whether it was competitive DPS or not,it still felt like it was trading DPS for healing
Iapetes: it actually does have very competitive dps with the other 2 trees right now
Iapetes: so its a weird decision
Iapetes: because clearly they can make it work
Iapetes: at least for dps
klepsacovic: I imagine blood will be pure tanking
klepsacovic: the other specs would QQ too much
Iapetes: looks like it

I'm not very happy about this change. My DK isn't my main, so my perspective is limited, but I felt like the trees were reasonably balanced for DPS and tanking. Not perfect, but nothing ever is. I liked frost. Unholy felt awkward. Blood felt wrong somehow. I like tanking. Well, now I have to pick either a spec I don't like or a role I don't like.

I feel like a lot of flavor has been lost. A lot of choice. Were the tanking and DPS styles similar? Yes! And I liked that. It made their tanking feel more aggressive, less like they were trying to hide despite being right at the front. A DK tank felt defiant: "Shield? I don't need no shield. Bring it on."

I'm sure I'll get used to this. My DK used to be unholy. I don't remember why I changed, but now I don't like it much. So clearly I can change. I will have to. Maybe in a year I'll be saying how stupid it was to try to have three tanking/DPS trees.

Kids, back in my day...


Quicksilver said...

Its just everyone's conservatory nature kicking in...

I'm sure it will prove to be just as fun as it is right now...

Anonymous said...

Never really played DK myself but I always thought the 3 specs looked too similar. I'll be interested to see what happens to frost and unholy. Maybe one will be pure melee dps and the other will be more based on dots, diseases and pets.

Anonymous said...

I like the change.

After 2 years of "spec? blood? frost is the tank spec l2p" discussions I will finally be free of that and could call those people names they truly deserve.

My DK was tank, and blood, since ever. The amount of abuse I had to go through before it became an accepted tank spec makes me delight in all frost DK tanks' tears now. Yummy!

Anonymous said...

I've been levelling a priest through WotLK dungeons, mostly disc healing, and to be honest I shudder when I get a DK tank. I think it's because they don't have a tanking tree, healing a DK tank in a PUG is like eating Bits 'n' Bites .. it's a whole new ballgame every time you do it. You never have any sort of idea what to expect from your tank, even more so than usual. I'm not one of those anti-DK players, I have a couple of them at or near the level cap myself, though I tank on neither.

I for one think the move is for the best. As GC said, it will allow DK tanks to be the best tank they can without having to cherry-pick through a lot of DPS talents. It's sad that a lot of the flavour of the class might be lost in the process, but I think the experiment of 3-tree tanking, while mostly a success, really doesn't fit in with the way all other classes do things.

Dwism said...

big rant inc from someone who's main is a DK... I just need to weed out the swearing.
@anon1: They where (where??) they ARE very different from each-other.. if played right.

Klepsacovic said...

@Okrane S.: No no no, no being reasonable. I won't have it.

@Anonymous: There are differences currently. I suggest giving them a whirl.

@Anonymous: Don't be a douchebag. There was no 'frost tank conspiracy'. Keep your "some people who spec X way were mean so I get to be mean to all people who spec X way" shit out of here.

@Bri: The big problem I had with DK tanks was tat they had no partial-mitigation ability; even bears have their crit bubble. Maybe with a dedicated tanking tree they'll get that.

@Dwism: If you take out the swearing, is it really a rant?

Anonymous said...

The truth really is that the three tank-DPS trees WERE successful... if you waited for the entire expansion and had the developers spend more time on them than any other class.

With WotLK, there were big changes to other classes, but they also had three years worth of iterated design to fall back on, so you could perhaps spend more time on DKs.

With Cataclysm, ALL of the classes will need attention, and suddenly they can't afford the time to balance DKs properly.

Dwism said...

@klep.. oh I ...don't..know

Hana said...

I'm a little saddened by the change, because I think it was a worthwhile experiment. My budding DK is only specced for blood tanking, so I probably won't be effected much by the change, but my DK is an alt so I'm free to pick trees based on what I like rather than what's most effective for raiding, and it happened that I liked blood (I wanted a more physical dps, warriory feel).

But I'm also disappointed that I won't be able to experiment with the other trees at some point in the future, and I know some people really liked being frost or unholy tanks.

I also wanted to give blood dps a whirl, but that's going away now.

Klepsacovic said...

@Anonymous: Do you have any evidence to back up the extra dev time spent? As for taking an entire expansion, well, it's taken easily four years to get any semblance of class balance. Pre-BC the hybrids were in especially horrible shape.

@DWism: Release your rage!

@Hana: You still have a few months until 4.0. Explore, experiment, say you've done it and join us in line at the QQ Festival in a few months.

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