Would you join a female-only guild?

| Wednesday, January 27, 2010
It's okay, men, you can read today's post. You can even answer, you just have to pretend to be female. No, I did not pretend to be female to write this. I don't have to answer the questions I ask. Now, on with the show.

Now and then I hear of guilds which don't recruit females. They claim it's not sexist, but instead practical, that their mere presence can cause drama. At risk of exposing myself as a sexist pig, I don't think this is so ridiculous. Some people just cannot function properly around females.

Ideally those cannot function in mixed environments are the people who don't get recruited, since they're the true problem. But it's harder to screen them than to discriminate against a large and obvious portion of the player base. Or to put it in other terms, it's easier to not hire black people than to not hire racists. When I put it that way, I take back my "not so ridiculous" claim: this is very ridiculous. Or worse. Maybe this is mere moral outrage at the cost of practicality. Then again, practicality and efficiency are not ends in themselves, but are merely the processes of good or evil goals. What the hell does this have to do with my topic?

Are there all-female guilds which do the same (exclude the opposite sex)? They don't invite males because sometimes they cannot handle being in a mixed guilds. This would reverse the discrimination; some males can't handle females so remove the males vs. some males can't handle females so remove the females. That leads to a whole new kind of looking like bad people. The all-male guilds are saying girls cause drama (sexist) while the female guild is saying guys can't handle them (sounds like some arrogant high school cheerleader).

I hope I managed to make clear that I don't think either of these are good, since both fail to address the true problem, but they may be practical and easier than trying to screen candidates:
"Can you handle the thought of breasts?"
"Of course."
"Then why are you taking so long to respond? These aren't hard questions."
"You're tabbed out watching porn, aren't you?"
Of course that's also a blanket generalization that people who tab out to watch porn are automatically drawn into female-induced drama. But it certainly doesn't help their application.

I wonder if there would be any sort of husband exception to the exclusion of males. It might just be my guild or my flawed perception, but it seems like most of the women in the guild play with their husbands. Maybe they just talk more. Could husbands be less susceptible to drama? I imagine in general, yes, but I'd expect a much higher susceptibility to wife-induced drama or the reverse for husbands adding drama that drags in their wives. Maybe an all-female guild would have to be truly all female, no exceptions. Of course then it's either splitting up couples or only having single women, odds are mostly the latter, and that's asking for a lot of drama aimed at the guild that isn't caused within it.

Would you join an all-female guild? Or would you join an all-male guild? I can't join the former and wouldn't join the latter. Somehow groups made entirely of men seem to end up being jackasses.

P.S. While writing this I had to keep removing references to Nazis.
P.P.S. Rotface is finally dead and I have an ugly new axe from Marrowgarr.


Larísa said...

There are all-female guilds. I suggest you check out this blog unless you haven't already.


Personally I couldn't stand being in a ladies-only-guild. But then I've never ever felt at home in female collectives. I'm better off among guys for some reason.

Anonymous said...

Hrm... I'm tethered to crankyhusband, so I'm not sure he'd like me ditching him for an all-girl guild. I think it would be cool for a while, but to me, it feels unnatural to be in a one-gender environment

Gronthe said...

Both would suck. Men are jerks and women hate each other, there's drama no matter what.

But if I had to choose, I would go female guild, because as a man who can take being yelled at, at least I could draw all their lady-rage to me so that they could get along better.

Leah said...


I cannot possibly be in a guild that chooses people based on one of the few things you cannot possibly change about yourself (surgeries notwithstanding - bear with me), for the purposes where that particular attribute doesn't affect performance.

no gender has nothing to do with how good or bad of a player you are.

amusingly enough I was a member of wow-ladies for a while. but then again, they do not restrict males (single or otherwise) from joining and posting.

if you want to reject me becasue of my playstyle - that's fine. if you reject me becasue our personalities clash - good for you, why try to play with someone you don't get along with? you want to reject me becasue of something I was born with, rather then chose to be? F U.

Ateve said...

Sorry to be a little off topic but...

"P.S. While writing this I had to keep removing references to Nazis."

When I saw the line, I realized adding this to the end of any blog post makes it way more interesting.

Klepsacovic said...

@Larisa: I've seen that blog before, didn't like it much, too useful.

@crankyhealer: Perhaps a raid now and then rather than a full permanent guild, a sort of virtual ladies' night out?

@Gronthe: I agree, it is folly to think that discrimination will bring harmony. I've super-deleted your deleted comment to keep things tidy, I hope you do not mind.

@Leah: Discrimination just isn't a popular idea, is it?

@Ateve: Heh. I kept talking about the submission of morality to practicality, but then I had to clarify and qualify and before long I was getting into the ineffectiveness of Nazi plans and ideology. It was terribly off-topic.

Gronthe said...

Had some bad spelling errors, so thanks. Need...to...proofread.

I should to make website:


Still in the works.

Larísa said...

@Klep: "I've seen that blog before, didn't like it much, too useful."

Cheers! We're brothers in arms - the legion of the useless blogs. Useless - but bloggish. You know what I mean.

Ophelie said...

I wouldn't, but I completely understand someone who would join an gender-only guild.

It actually bothers me a little bit that female-only guilds are generally thought of as cool, while male-only guilds are considered sexist. Granted, female-only guilds do seem to do a better job of advertising themselves, but the principle behind both is the same: it's nice to hang out and chill with people of your own gender.

I love the spice and diversity that having two genders brings to a guild, but at times I do wish I could have all-girl nights in games. There are just things I can't talk about with the guys. (And I'm sure there are things that guys aren't comfortable talking about in front of the ladies.)

Hana said...

Deleted and reposted since I accidentally copied in a reply meant for another blog. >_<

There was an all-female guild profiled in WoW.com a while ago, and they said they found it to be a safer environment where they could avoid crude humor and the not-so-cool talk about raping bosses, raping other players in PvP, etc. Because their members also have male friends family members they like playing with they created a brother guild for the males to hang out in and the two guilds come together for shared activities and raiding, but the guild chat itself is separate.

That said, I don't know if I could stand being in an all-female guild. I've always been the stereotypical tomboy while growing up and I'm used to hanging around with guy friends. It'd be weird for me to be around nothing but my own gender.

Kassi said...

I'm female but wouldn't join a girl-only guild. I don't like to be thought of as female (or male for that matter) while playing, as far as I'm concerned I'm just another human.

That could be because I'm happy in my WoW home: our guild is all 25 and over. So everyone has some/all of kids, partners, job, etc and is pretty mature.

Klepsacovic said...

@Larisa: Of course I do.

@Ophelie: Beyond advertising, it could be that the all-female guilds are trying to protect themselves from cultural standards of sexism whereas all-male guilds are virtual frats.

@Hana: Twin guilds, interesting idea. It's too bad WoW doesn't have any system for guild alliances.

@Kassi: Human first, other attributes second; I like that thought.

Jyorore said...

I doubt very much if I could truly enjoy myself in an all female guild. I grew up with 4 brothers, no sisters, so I can identify with men better.
When I join a new guild, it usually takes a few weeks for them to figure out that I'm female, and only then because I had to call out a taunt or something usually combat related in vent. I try to keep most of my chatter to /raid or /g.
Sometimes I'll get a little extra attention, I guess its a natural reaction. But since I don't act much different than the guys, they stop treating me much different; usually after a few days.

Amber said...

"Are there all-female guilds which do the same (exclude the opposite sex)?"

There are entire WoW sub-communities with a female focus. Check out www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=wow_ladies -- the community itself has several thousand members (not all are active) and hosts two all-female guilds on Bronzebeard: Daughters of the Alliance and Daughters of the Horde.

There are other all-female guilds out there as well, but those are the first two I think of when this subject comes up.

Personally? I can understand the appeal of an all-gender guild. As a female with a rather over-the-top, playfully personality, I often run into male gamers (and sometimes other females) that like to accuse me of participating in some of the crude, raunchy humor to "get guys." It's hilariously laughable--I'm much better behaved in-game than I am hanging out with my female friends. It's sometimes much easier to throwdown the raunchy jokes in a vent or guild full of females that aren't going to decide you're "hitting on them" because you make a boob joke.

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