Frozen Orb: Need or Greed?

| Tuesday, January 12, 2010
Before LFD, my server had a standard of greed. People followed it.

Then LFD came and there was a mixed period during which some rolled greed and others rolled need, and in all sorts of combinations and timings, so I cannot ascribe it purely to ninjas.

Things seem to have settled down and people are all needing.

But for no apparent reason, I run into a group now and then that greeds. I've found no pattern to it. They don't talk more or less or play better or worse. If I remember, I'll try to find a pattern of servers.

I don't mean one person greeds, I mean everyone. Perhaps it is merely the group following the example of the first. But that seems to be insufficient.

The second person has every reason to need and I doubt social contract is what prevents his ninjaing. After all, I found no pattern of social interaction, these people are just as uninterested in other people as anyone else. By greeding they make themselves vulnerable to the next person needing. The third person can now see the picture even more clearly: need is to his benefit and he can also know that if he greeds, the potential benefit is even higher for the next person. Yet somehow, in these strange groups, there is a cascade of fairness.

The strangest behavior I've seen is rolling greed after a need roll. It's one thing to roll greed along with the rest: that's fair. But to roll greed after someone else has rolled need isn't fair, it's unfair against oneself. This doesn't even appear to happen purely through nearly simultaneous rolls; often they come with a few seconds spacing.

As for myself, I follow the highest roll. If everyone does greed, I do greed. If one person needs, I need. I roll greed for fairness. I roll need out of self-interest balanced against fairness and to reduce the chances of the potential ninja winning so as to ensure that need is not a profitable activity for him. There is the risk that this creates a new standard of need rolling, but as long as that is a standard, nothing is lost.

What do you roll? Greed, need, lowest, or highest? Or do you /roll 1-2 with 1 being greed and 2 being need and go by that? The sky's the limit.


LarĂ­sa said...

I don't bother much about the orbs, I have the gold I need and I'm not cheap in any way. So I roll greed all the way. Probably even if someone else has rolled need; to be honest I don't pay any attention to that at all. Probably it looks a bit weird. But it's not about sticking to my principles, I just don't care that much to check on the other rolls.

Shintar said...

I'm like Larisa, I just roll greed because it feels the fairest and I don't pay attention to the other rolls. Lately the number of groups where at least one person rolls need has gone through the roof and I haven't won an orb in a while, but I'm not bothered enough to change my ways.

Dorgol said...

We were a "roll Need on the orb" server pre-LFD. Now it has changed to Greed with the other servers.

Amusingly enough, in TBC we used Greed for Primal Nethers. I never did figure out what caused people to go to Need for Orbs.

This is on Boulderfist and Galakrond (US), btw.

Busket said...

Pretty much the only BoE thing I'd ever roll need on is a Battered Hilt. Or anything that actually represented an upgrade I suppose, but frozen orbs certainly don't count, and the difference between an orb and a hilt explains why people don't care about protecting themselves from losing out on an orb. Frozen orbs are not scarce, and have little value. I actually stopped greeding even and just pass. I figure the marginal utility I could get out of it is actually exceeded by the satisfaction someone else might get from just winning the roll.

G-Rebel said...

I always roll greed, and that only because I don't care what other people roll. 4 out of 5 random groups I'm in roll greed anyway.

I used to be able to sell them for 20-40g on my server pre LFD they now sell for 5-7g. So I can't make money with them anymore so I really don't pay attention.

Kiryn said...

I actually keep my loot-rolling text in a separate chat window so that it doesn't spam my main chat all the time. I only look at it if people say something about the results of a roll.

I probably wouldn't notice if someone rolled Need, and that might explain some of the people rolling Greed several seconds after a Need roll.

Hana said...

My battlegroup we generally Greed, which is the same as my server did pre-crossrealm LFD.

The difference is now and then we have a ninja that Needs every now and then after everyone else has Greeded. It's not a big deal given how cheap orbs are now, but kinda lame.

Anonymous said...

I agree with everyone above, the first week people really paid attention to it and the ninjas always pissed me off. A month later i could care less ... I dont even look at the gear that drops if i cant DE then I greed.

Klepsacovic said...

@Larisa, Shintar, G-Rebel, Vailladin: So you're the ones with the late greed rolls! I'll try to say hello next time. :P
Alas, Euro servers...

@Dorgol: I'd guess that the nether->orb change was due to adaptation to ninjas, but then your server switched the other direction later. Maybe you're all crazy.

@Busket: That's a nice way to think of it.

@Kiryn: How do you have the screen space for yet another window? Or it a tab? My scribe has a tab for looting to keep ink spam from pushing away the serious and important conversations in trade channel.

@Hana: I think I've said it before: Ninjas aren't in it for the money.

Anonymous said...

My server ( crushridge-us) has rolled Need before Lfg. It has become both habit and a way to eliminate ninja'ing. The times I have rolled need, people have exploded at me in anger (suprising for something so worthless).

My response was to ask them how they would roll on the battered hilt. How is this any different?

B_Dragon said...

For me, it has always been Greed on the Frozen Orbs - I don't think I've ever rolled Need on them before. I don't really need them, if I got them then it's a bonus and if not, well, there's always another time.

Besides, with two level 80s running random heroics back to back and an additional two level 80s doing dailies, rep grinds and farming during the weekend, I can make enough gold to buy those orbs from the AH easy =)

- Aenur of Hydraxis

Klepsacovic said...

@Anonymous: A sense of unfairness is not dependent on a sense of proportion.
That's a rather strange argument. Are you saying they would break rolling pattern (be ninjas) and therefore you're entitled to do the same?

@B_Dragon: Orbs on the AH don't make much sense. They'd have to go for a 5.26g just to break even with the vendor, then to make them worth the time to put them up, the risk that they won't sell and the deposit is lost, and I wonder if people are losing a bit of gold from trying to make a profit on the AH.

Kiryn said...

I usually keep it as a separate tab. I have a 26" monitor so I have plenty of screen space, and these days I tend to run with my unit frames down near my action bars, and my chat window in the top left where the character panel used to be.

Sometimes I'll make two chat panels arranged vertically, with the top one being experience/reputation/loot (I usually turn off money drops entirely) and stupid other things like NPC emotes that tend to spam my chat window.

I really hate how WoW's chat system works. There's a simplified loot display that just says who won without showing each individual roll, but then I can't see that information when I need it, and I can't make one tab with the rolls and one without, it doesn't work that way. So I have to find my own solutions.

Ngita said...

Greed. I have 40+ orbs, all from greeding, Not sure about your server but mine the AH price for a orb is 7g and they vendor for 5g, Generally if they need the orb I just consider them as too chicken to just be blatant and need loot all of the last boss drops. About 10% of the heroics they do that anyway, Need,need,need drop group. I guess a 100% chance of a 15g vendor item is better then a 20% chance of a 30g abyss.

Guthammer said...

Silver Hand (US) Alliance is greed on orbs. There was some needing back in the day, when they were, you know, needed.

I think I am sitting on 20ish of them right now. They're right next to my stack of 600 Stone Keeper's shards (if you will).

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