The problem with disenchanting

| Thursday, October 8, 2009
We don't treat it the same way we treat other profession activities. Even enchanters don't look at it properly.

To start off, stop with the silly comparisons to rolling on mining nodes. That doesn't work at all. The node has zero value without a miner. The drops have value without the enchanter. The miner creates value from 'nothing' while the enchanter adds values to something.

What does the enchanter do? They convert them into something with more value. This is what all professions attempt do. They take cloth or bars or gems and turn them into something more valuable than selling the mats to the vendor.

Somehow we got the idea that enchanting is different. We got the idea that just because they are in the group that they are obligated to use their profession for our benefit, at no benefit to them. Ever seen someone tip an enchanter for DEing at the end? I never have. How often have you seen an enchanter not even get a single shard? I have pretty often. They add value an get nothing in return. They aren't even given an advantage in getting into groups; it's not as if people are saying "lf enchanter for [instance]." I might have seen that twice in four years.

Can you imagine at the end of a run shoving a bunch of cloth into a tailor's trade window and expecting a robe in return? Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? Let's say you even have the other mats and thread and all that, just because you like carrying stuff. Anyway, that's beside the point. You'd not expect free benefit from a tailor or alchemist just because they're in your group, so why expect anything more from an enchanter?

We don't call tailors greedy for refusing to turn out cloth into bags, so why do we attack enchanters who don't turn unwanted gear into shards? It's time we started either tipping enchanters or stop expecting them to do us favors just because they happen to be nearby.


Dorgol said...

And this is 2 days too late - news on PTR is that they are adding a "Disenchant" option to rolling for loot.

Green Armadillo said...

Personally, I don't volunteer the information that I am an enchanter unless asked, and just click "greed" along with everyone else who assumes there isn't a DE'er in the group. Blue ilvl 200 weapons actually vendor for more than the value of a shard these days, and even crystals are worth maybe 2 daily quests' worth of gold. I don't feel it's worth the responsibility of volunteering to collect and redistribute them, at the risk of someone thinking I'm a ninja if I (or they) forget.

As to the new option Dorgol mentions, it's pretty bizarre to have DE below "greed", when almost by definition you want the shard for cash. I guess the community has co-opted the "greed" roll to mean "upgrade that I'm not willing to spend my need roll on".

Shintar said...

@GA: On my server greed is for off-spec, so it makes sense to have it take priority over disenchanting.

Also, maybe it's because I don't have an enchanter, but I really don't see this as an issue to begin with. I've also had people say stuff like "Oh, you're a LW? Can you make me an armour patch after this run, I got the mats" in pugs and then fulfilled their request free of charge. I always felt that the teamwork required to complete an instance at least temporarily creates a certain kind of camaraderie which also includes the benefit of helping each other out with professions for free.

Ngita said...

Need - Main spec
Greed - Off spec

Well &^%^ that guy just outrolled me on my weapon upgrade for my offset so he could turn a 11g weapon into a 8g shard.

But I have to say I completely disagree with you on this. Maybe its those guys why selflessly skinned the beast and handed it over to the winner of the roll or the skinner who handed over free dragon scales for my mount quest when asked during the ubrs run that have lead to me doing so all these years.

But financially I have done much better then if I simply greeded everything and got a 20% success rate.

From strat and scholo where it was common for the enchanter to keep the proceeds from bop greens to himself and only had over the shards, To wotlk where many groups passed on drean shards so the enchanter and only rolled on the abyss crystal.

I happily hand over whatever people roll for and expect the favor returned if I am on alts that cant disenchant.

Klepsacovic said...

@Dorgol: That does not at all address the problem, so this is not late. Nor is it early. It was posted exactly when I intended to.

@Green Armadillo: I also stopped volunteering. People never seemed to remember to ask about shards at the end.

@Shintar: We're shaped by our experiences; yours seem to have been more positive.

Ngita: Ditto.

LarĂ­sa said...

I don't quite understand how to interprate the upcoming change. Will you be able to disenchant without having an enchanter in the group?

Klepsacovic said...

@Larisa: I'm 99% certain no. It's just to remove the need for groups to work out ahead of time "pass and greed for DE" or some other system.

Leah said...

I consider disenchanting to be on par with buffs that require reagents. when I'm running on my druid, I don't ask people to tip me for every spineleaf I've used. when I'm on my pally or a priest, I don't ask to be reimbursed for candles. when I'm on my mage, I don't ask for money back for the food I set up or the portal I made after the run was over. so why should I ask for tips when I'm disenchanting in a run? I'm not even spending reagents there, all it takes is a click of a button t this point.

The only reason I stopped DEing for groups lately on my 2 characters with enchanting was becasue people don't care anymore, even if you tell them you can DE. they just roll greed anyways and vendor stuff, becasue they don't feel like bothering with shards I guess?

I honestly think that enchanters think waaaay too much of their skill and what they should get out of it. (incidentaly - the bulk of my income comes from selling enchanting mats, so I relaly don't think enchanters have it all that bad. selling enchanting mats is a hella easier then even selling glyphs. listing is free so you don't lose any gold from AH fees from your unsold auctions), you don't have to go through 100 different types just to figure out which ones will be selling today and they sell faster then I can list them becasue people are always enchanting their new ups

Anonymous said...

"I might have seen that twice in four years."
Never, ever seen this.

I agree with you to a fair extent.

leather workers skin.. but there is no roll. Their trade progresses and they profit.

Miners mine.. but there is no roll. Their trade progresses and they profit.

Herbalists herb.. but there is no roll. Their trade progresses and they profit.

Enchanters DE, then offer up the proceeds to everyone else.

I spent a long time in TBC, maybe 2 months, handing out enchanting mats to my mates at the end of every night... not once did I win a roll.

Later they complained because my enchanting wasn't high enough.

I got it there, but off my own bat, my own Quests rewards DE'd, not vendored. My own money on the AH.

I haven't leveled enchanting all the way in WoLK, because I don't have the mats... I've decided I don't care. Apart from the ring enchants it has become a useless profession to me

Klepsacovic said...

@Leah: I see a difference in that my purpose in the group is to play my class/role; that includes buffing. I was not invited as an enchanter.

@gnomeaggedon: Please excuse me, but I hate comparisons between enchanting and gathering professions. It's a crafting profession and it is the persistent failure to recognize this which has degraded the value of DEing.

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