A slacker? Typical 25-man elitism.

| Wednesday, April 28, 2010
Larisa called me a slacker in my previous post. Well, perhaps. But I know a challenge when I see one.

I see little that is not good about the upcoming changes. I think 25 man raiders and 10 man raiders will benefit. Yes, both groups.

If the loss of loot will kill 25s, then they should die.
The loss of 'welfare' epics killed arenas, and they should have died. I believe there is a purity to them now. They are now filled with people who want to do competitive PvP. Of course some lootwhores remain, but they are the minority, rather than the overwhelming majority. Arenas were improved by no longer having artificial incentives drawing in people who didn't want to be there. Less people do them, but that's fine if it means that less people who don't want to do them aren't doing them.

I believe 25 man raids will be the same. Those who truly enjoy them will continue to do them. Those who don't, won't. This is not a bad thing.

25 man raiders should not be running 10 man raids just for loot.
It's rather silly that raiders are pushed into heroics, not just to gear up initially (by that I mean, before we were farming Naxx), but for a large portion of their badges. Raiders should raid. Some farming here and there is good, but no one benefits form shoving the raiding population into content which is trivial and old for them. 10 man raids are not much different. They are easier content run purely for gear, rather than for the fun of it.

Do 25 man raiders lose a chance at gear? Nope! Their raids will be giving extra gear, likely matching that which they'd get from their boring 10 man extra, except without being downgraded quality. Imagine that, 25 man raiders can get what they need from 25 man raids, without being pressured to a track of content that they don't want to do.

10 man raiding can be its own track, not merely a lesser form.
10 man raiding is going to see a huge increase. Guilds won't feel pushed into 25s for the 'prestige' or loot. The idea that 10 mans are just inferior 25s, a source of easy loot, will eventually wither, though I doubt 10s will ever be seen as equal to 25s.

Currently there are very few pure 10 guilds. They sound stupid, don't they? They cut themselves off from the real raiding, taking inferior loot, and less of it. A 25 man guild gets better gear and more of it since they can do 10s too, but a 10s guild is so restricted. Not anymore. Now 10s guilds will be normal. If they happen to grow they may become 25 guilds, but they won't just be stunted and inferior pre-25 guilds.

This will also benefit new raiders. They'll have a small place to start, when they aren't one of slightly over two dozen, shielded from their mistakes and never learning until it's too late. Too late means they've learned nothing but think they have.

Choices are hard.
I know it sounds frightening, to have to actually commit to a raid, to not do the guild 25 and then a PUG 10 man for some offspec and mean stories. It's strange to imagine raiding not being a purely guild activity. But that's what it used to be and I think it was better that way.

We used to trade in trade chat, not spam GS requirements for a PUG. Am I being nostalgic? Well fuck yes, I am. Deal with it. Let's face it, the community has gone downhill. A lot of that I blame on accessibility going too far, too many badges and too many PUGs and too many people thrown together for a short time just to grab gear and hopefully never see each other again. Bring back the guild raid, bring back the guild, and let's stop this dicking around with gearscore just because we can't trust each other anymore.


Copernicus said...

When we formed our guild it was intended to be a small group of friends who happened to raid, but as time passed, I was being pressured more and more to get more people and run 25s. We worked our way up til we had two successful 10 mans running, and with a small push in recruiting we were able to form a 25, which promptly fell flat on it's face.

A few more failed weeks later, people left or stopped showing up and we were back down to running a single 10 man run. Truly a disappointing turn of events for a guild/raid leader.

I know there are people that really like the 25 man environment, but I am not one of them. On the other hand, I loved having two 10 man groups running. There was friendly competition between the groups over which group could down which hard modes first. They were on different days, so people could join either group, depending on how their scheduled looked. It was just all around a very pleasant experience.

I may try to do something similar in Cataclysm, and it will be awesome to do it without the pressure of having to form a 25 to get better loot.

Heck, a guild running three 10s? four? It will be interesting to see how the guild experience/advancement affects all this, whether it will be beneficial to have a large guild or a small one.

Gronthe said...

I think that, in general, people enjoy the speculation more than the knowing.

Think about the news stories when some famous schmuck gets into trouble for something he did or did not do. Now he has to issue false-apologies for something we're not sure if he did or not, but we eat it up.

But once we know everything and the truth is reported the excitement begins to wane. Why say anything? Because it's fun! I hope you had some writing this, because I had fun reading it.

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