People who want to be in hardcore guilds but aren't

| Friday, June 11, 2010
These people are full of fail. I see three ways to categorize them: fail, unsure, and social. People can fall into more than one category.

What's so bad about them? Their behavior and attitude are entirely the opposite of what is needed for the non-hardcore guild. They expect everything to have been dead last week and cannot handle the idea that some people learn more slowly than others. They lash out. They ragequit. They blame everyone except themselves, because they think they are awesome and aren't quite sure why they're hanging out with these losers.

I believe that most community problems can be attributed to these sort of people. They're the ones making poorly-run PUGs demanding 5k GS for regular ToC 10. They're running trash DPS meters in randoms. They're screaming about how everyone sucks, whether it's in a BG, raid, or just trade chat. They're often the ninjas, since you're so awful compared to them that they deserve it all, and maybe it's your fault that they are in this stupid random instead of fighting HM Arthas.

They are that grouchy guy at work who hates his job but isn't quitting it any time soon. That guy needs to shut up, doesn't he?

The three categories have different patterns of negative behavior, so not all of what I said earlier in universal to them.

Fail
In the simplest terms: this person isn't skilled enough to be in a hardcore guild. Maybe he was in one and got kicked or driven out. Maybe he applied a bunch of times to a bunch of guilds and got into none. Maybe he was in a casual guild which changed and he lost his spot. Whatever it was, the world has been bluntly telling him that he's bad. He didn't listen and is certain that he is amazing and the rest of the world just sucks, especially his current, non-hardcore guild.

Expect excessive aggression, blaming, and little patience. This player may also try to convert the guild.

Unsure
This player really wants to go hardcore and kill Arthas HM and dreams of someday doing a 40-man raid on GM Island. Rawr says his DPS should be at around 9.7k in his gear, but he's struggling for 9.4k and thinks that's terrible. Every wipe crushes his spirit as he runs through the ten thousand mistakes he made. This doesn't mean he truly made ten thousand mistakes, but he is certain that he should have been half an inch in that direction at that time and that would have saved the raid.

Expect a lot of emo, self-deprecating apologies. Beware, may start to ask why the rest of the raid isn't fixing their ten thousand mistakes and become angry.

Social
This player likes the people he raids with and doesn't want to lose them. Fails to realize that he only cares about a small portion of the guild anyway and will still be able to whisper them or talk in custom channels. Hasn't fully grasped the notion that he had friends before the guild, made friends in the guild, and probably could make new friends after the guild.

Expect a lot of chatter and attempts to keep the raid motivated. Warning: May suddenly realize he secretly hates half the raid. Don't worry, he's too afraid to hurt the other half to say anything.

These can all overlap, with increasingly obnoxious results. For example, the social fail combination may form a clique which blames the rest of the raid. The fail unsure combination might leave to go cry in the middle of the raid because not only does he make ten thousand trivial mistakes, he also makes ten thousand significant mistakes, and he knows it. The social unsure has no mic and worries that he might have been wearing a pirate hat this whole time.

10 comments:

Leah said...

I'm an "unsure" with a smidgen of "social". though I think you should rename "unsure" into "insecure" >_>

Edawan said...

We had a tank once who was exactly a "fail" type.

Expect excessive aggression, blaming, and little patience. This player may also try to convert the guild.

Exactly that.
He lasted about a month in our (casual-friendly) guild.

Actually he was a pretty good player, but he NEVER admitted that he did mistakes, which quickly led to tensions and what you described.


Me, I'm afraid I fall in all three categories, at times.

Klepsacovic said...

@Leah: That's the word I was looking for!

@Edawan: Frankly I think everyone does, but for some it is a sustained state.

2nd Nin said...

Lack of Time?

Variable Schedule?

Bad Computer?

Bad Internet Connection?

Askevar said...

Oh yes, we've had several come in and try to convert our casual raiding guild into a hardcore one... Fail. Fail. Fail. They don't last because they get pissy and aggressive because we're not clearing all content they want to be as fast as they want to be.

If we wanted to be a hardcore guild, we'd either be one or be in one. We are what we are and we're happy with that.

Interestingly, the people who were good enough that they CHOSE to go hardcore left us on great terms, are in hardcore raiding guilds, keep in touch and would be welcome back.

Klepsacovic said...

@2nd Nin: I threw computer and internet in the the "fail" category (I know I didn't actually say that in the post). While they're not expressions of skill, the lagging person and the person who doesn't pay attention will look somewhat similar.

The overall problem is one of discontent, players who are not in the type of guild they want to be in. I imagine hardcore players might have the reverse perspective: annoyed with casual players who wander in and cannot make the commitment or display the skill.

@Ashkevar: I wonder if there's any effective way to screen for them.

2nd Nin said...

There is a big difference though between a player who doesn't stand in the fire and reacts but has latency or lag issues, and one who cannot.

Simply classing them as fail is to create a pointless grouping.

I am not currently guilded, I have been in guilds that did cutting edge, and guilds that walked around picking flowers. Simply though I could join a hardcore guild if I wanted to however most of them would annoy me as much as a non-hardcore guild. Look at 11/12 HM guilds, they aren't failing because of computers or latency but generally because they are still carrying 1-10 players who fall into your fail category despite being in top guilds (in a less top guild they might be considered a good enough raider).

I have as a tank learned that I get 1 pull to learn a fight (if I take more than 1 everyone else seems to fail as a multiplier on this not additively). Ok I still stand in stuff occasionally but as a general rule I don't make enough mistakes to fail the raid.

People fail in defile, they can't handle two events at once etc, these are people you would put in the good raider category normally but they fall into fail in certain situations, in TBC we made our warrior tank Teron because he would wipe the raid if he got the ghosts... good tank, bad at ghosts, he just didn't understand it.

Trying to classify "fail", "angst" and "skill" just won't work in the long run other than generating a wave of "omg I know that guy". It won't stop them standing in defiles or make them understand valks.

Klepsacovic said...

From the standpoint of whether they help make the boss die, there is little difference. I do agree that it's an imperfect grouping, but I was trying to focus mostly on player factors rather than things I would consider external and 'not their fault' such as hardware or time.

To contradict myself ASAP, the different 'fails' could lead to different responses, such as teaching them to preemptively move if there is a predictable AoE or finding just the right guild with scheduling demands which fit. However on the most basic level, the outcome, boss not dead, is the same.

iapetes said...

11/12 HM guilds are still 11/12 because arthas hm is just a really hard fight <_<

Assuming that it has to do with carrying people and that the mistakes are always the same people's fault is kinda dumb.

Cassandri said...

I don't have anything insightful to say (it's midnight) except I agree 100%.

The no skills, impatient type are the reason why I hate pugs. There's always one of them. Convinced that everyone else is fail and that's why the pug can't kill Lich King (nevermind that *he* hasn't even cleared the frost wing let alone Lich King).

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