There are a few ways good DPS can "carry" a tank.. lets see.
They can use proper CC both before the pull and during (such as stuns), put up proper damage reducing debuffs, interrupt spell casts (HUGE), move out of bad (to help the healer), make sure to not pull threat, consistently using threat re-directing abilities, not pulling more then the minimum number of creatures, tossing out off healing if needed, tanking or kiting creatures briefly if needed.
Those are not carrying. Those are how you are supposed to play. I know, it's crazy, the thought that DPS would do anything other than mindlessly punch something. But here's the reality:
This gets its own line.
If you're not using all your abilities, you or someone else is overgeared and there is carrying going on.
Or to put it another way:
DPS have gotten so damn spoiled by tanks carrying them that the moment the tank puts them down, the DPS thinks they are carrying the tank.
Or to put it another another way:
This is part of why I got sick of WoW. I like the idea of tanking, but the actual practice of it is a pain in the ass because so many people play like absolute shit and then whine that it's my fault.
Most DPS aren't bad. Most players aren't bad. But the players who are bad are noticeable.
It is possible to carry a tank, in extreme circumstances. If we assume that the healer is properly geared and skilled, but still cannot keep up the tank, then a DPS helping with heals will be carrying the tank. Similarly, if the healer is overgeared, they may be carrying the tank. But...
Using CC and interrupts are not at all carrying the tank. They're your fucking job. Fuck. You've got me swearing about how fucking stupid you are being. You know who you are. Fuckers.
I think I just used more bold text in this post than I have this entire year, and the one before. God dammit.
Oh here, masterlooter had a pretty good comment, slightly trimmed.
I think there might be a confusion on terminology here.
"Carrying" implies that the group/raid could very likely have done the event without the "carried" player being there at all.If you're saying that you're "carrying" a tank. that means you could have done the instance without a tank altogether.
Other players needing to CC, interupt, "heal more", and aggro dump are NOT indicators of "carrying" a tank. It's just using different strategies with the group you have at hand. It's no different than how some guilds 2 tank Omnitron, and others single tank it. Those with 2 tanks are not "carrying" another tank - just using a different strategy.
Four man a heroic 5 man instance without someone in a tank spec, then you can say you're able to "carry" a tank.
On a lighter note, tomorrow I will complain about Nazis.
11 comments:
Fuckin A! Seriously, good post, the idea of using all of a class's abilities seems to escape alot of button zombies. My guild likes to experiment, sometimes to our detriment, but we like to try every possible combination to see how much thinking on our feet we can do and still get by. Good stuff!
Fuck yeah! I did a bit of tanking in TBC, mostly normals and a handful of heroics. I could never seem to bridge that gear gap that would allow me to tank a heroic Mech for the tanking sword that would allow me to tank heroics comfortably.
However, Shadow Labyrinth and perhaps Sethekk Halls were the two runs that I did the most, with guildies. And CC was not optional. Protecting our healer who was probably quite a lot of Balance, was not optional. Putting up with fire mages that insisted on pulling was completely friggin' optional.
Not carrying tank: interupts, CC, de-buffs.
Possibly carrying tank: DPS using healing abilities, constantly using CC as an interupt to the detriment of DPS. As a DPS, I am always willing to run with a somewhat undergeared tank, as long as they aren't a jerk or try to blame others for their shortcomings.
Yea i made a reply on richards commment on that. Interruptng is a dps task. If an interrupt is missed and somebody gets 1 shot why should the tank with 1-2% hit be doing it. Virtually every task a dps can do to carry a tank was something dps HAD to do to, to complete early tbc heroics.
CC and interrupts (and other abilities) are part of the job, but there's a difference between doing them 'good enough' and 'good enough to carry a bad tank'. It's the same as the difference between playing well enough to win and playing well enough to win despite bad play from others in the group.
In the same vein, unless you can two man the instance, you are not carrying the dps.
Funny how all the "I'm the lord of all creation because I managed to hold aggro on one mob once" seem to ignore that...
An additional bit I might add to the carrying: if the group is worse off because of a player, then there is carrying taking place. For example, someone who constantly breaks CC at the wrong time or pulls a boss early.
@Pathak: Didn't you just love all the double-healer pulls? I'm glad Cataclysm has brought those back.
@Anonymous: Those might be carrying the healer. Or, those are what I commonly did back in vanilla when that was just how we did things. More recently, before paladins got a true off-GCD itnerrupt, I often used hammer of justice as one of last resort.
@Ngita: Depending on the stage of gear, the tank should be a bit better off in terms of hit chance, but that's beside the point.
@Reaper: I've done that, actually...
We'll have to take a survey of tanks to see how many held aggro on one mob once and developed egos from that.
I was (trying to) healing a group through a heroic where the tank decided that zerg was the only option (in part because the dps were only dpsing, in part because he wasn't indicating the need for CC etc) even though the DPS were only pulling 4k dps each.
After the 3rd wipe on the same trash, I asked if we could play the game properly, otherwise I was out. The tank couldn't handle the damage, the dps couldn't handle the damage, I couldn't handle the damage.
Your right, it's not carrying to use all your blizzard given skills... that's called playing the game.
I totally agree with this post. I have seen so many DPS that lack skills it has driven me out of the random LFD
When I have to use Distracting Shot to pull & kite the mob beating on the healer & no CC will work because of the AoE the tank has dropped .. I'm carrying the tank.
Especially if I have to pop Deterrence too because the room is too damn small for kiting.
@gnomeaggedon: Maybe the first wipe people are figuring out what the tank and healer can handle, but after three, they could have tried something crazy, such as playing better.
@Anonymous: You seem to have read my post as "DPS cannot and will not carry tanks, ever." They can and do, but it's a lot less common than was suggested by many of the comments in Tobold's post.
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