Dear really, really overgeared plate DPS

| Saturday, June 19, 2010
You can 'tank' most randoms just by high DPS burning down mobs and bosses before they can do anything bad. Imagine instant queues and never having to wait on someone to pull. Doesn't that sound awesome?

16 comments:

Nikola Begedin said...

but what if i get Halls of Reflection? Then im the douche who queued as tank to get a faster queue.

Klepsacovic said...

"Sorry guys, I don't think I'm ready to tank this yet." Drop and now they're at the front of the line for a new tank. Who hopefully is not also a DPS.

The odds are low.

Gauss said...

I have successfully tanked all wrath heroics as fury in full dps gear in zerker stance. Without ever using any abilities you wouldn't use while dpsing. This includes Halls of Reflection.

Although in HoR it took 3 healers to do the wave event. Then 2 after that.

Asbel said...

Should really clear that with the healer first; they need to know that you're not crit immune. But I've agreed to that many times, and it can be nice to have that much dps!

Dwism said...

@gauss; then you havent really sucessfully done anything. All you've done is what some random shadow-priest could've done with enough healers.

Gauss said...

@Dwism

I really don't think there is another class or spec that could hold the aggro off other dps classes in order to make it work. If there is I will gladly except the proof that it can be done.

The whole point of my project was to prove how easy heroics are when overgeared for them and how stupid fury aggro is.

iapetes said...

Are you kidding? A ret paladin can easily hold aggro. They do all the AoE dps a fury warrior can do, with righteous fury on to generate a ton of extra threat.

Klepsacovic said...

Ret paladins, unlike fury warriors, have no increases to damage taken. We have no aggro reduction either, since that turns off if Righteous Fury is active, and then of course there's the aggro gain from RF. Seal of Command is like a cleave that costs no rage, and benefits from RF. With two pieces of t10, Divine Storm is effectively on a 3-4 seconds CD, which means loads of AoE damage. Crits mean Righteous Vengeance, which means holy damage, which means aggro multiplier.

Gauss said...

A Ret pally doesn't normally DPS a heroic with RF active. Of course they could turn it on and do it, but that wasn't the point. It was to do everything as you would as if you were normally dpsing. No taunts, no tank buffs, no nothing. Just to show how stupid the current aggro situation is.

A ret pally is by no means close to in the same situation as a fury warrior is in regards to aggro issues.

Klepsacovic said...

If your goal was to show that fury warriors have aggro problems, you picked a terribly indirect way to say it, and a poor place. Just glancing at talents, you would seem to be 10% ahead of arms and only 20% behind the most common aggro reduction of 30%.

iapetes said...

"A ret pally is by no means close to in the same situation as a fury warrior is in regards to aggro issues."

that isn't true either.

Gauss said...

@iapetes

How would it not be true? A ret pally can salv themselves and BoP to name two. Of course they could do these things to a warrior as well, but it would require a pally for the warrior to get them.

Heroic strike for some odd reason by Bliz causes a high amount of threat in every stance and every spec. For those unknown to DPS warrior rotation this is used basically instead of an auto attack. So even based on aggro reduction talents it is a stupid mechanic blizzard has yet to fix.

No other DPS class has such an ability which purposely casues a high amount of threat.

Klepsacovic said...

BoP doesn't actually remove aggro, it's a temporary invalid target. We'd be just as well off bubbling so we could at least keep attacking. While it act as an emergency save, it's no more effective in the long term than simply watching your aggro.

In a multi-target situation you'll be better off using cleave, which tends to be where aggro is mostly likely to be a problem, making the heroic strike issue irrelevant. On a single target, most tanks are generating far more aggro than they could possibly need, except in cases of extreme gear disparities.

So yes, on paper heroic strike would seem to be a major problem, but when you use it (single target) the tank has a huge aggro advantage anyway, meaning that in practice, assuming time is given for aggro and the tank isn't terrible, that aggro should not be an issue.

If you're somehow finding yourself aggro-capped, you may find it beneficial to switch some heroic strikes for cleaves, even on a single target. This was common back when aggro was a major limiter to DPS.

iapetes said...

basically what kleps said. It's only ever an issue in heroics with crap geared tanks, and in that case its as much an issue for a paladin as it is a warrior.

Gauss said...

Well ya heroics is the issue and sadly just not when tanks have crappy gear. Whenever I see a tank from Ragnaros I try to make sure I am repaired before we start.

If my guild tanks couldn't keep aggro in raids on single target well that would be a different issue entirely. This of course doesn't include the times when hunters and rogues want to be an ass to me.

By BoP I ment it is a way to somewhat save yourself. Us warriors just die. Of course you could but it on a warrior and if he is clueless will probably think he is hacked or something.

Lastly, heroic stike is something that has been an issue for a long time and never been fixed mostly due to developers being lazy as it is something that has just become expected.

Anonymous said...

Heroic strike was created as a tool for tanks to convert excess rage to threat. It was justified in vanilla where tanking was the ONLY PvE endgame role for warrior (Fury and Arms trees existed for levelling and PvP only).
DPS warriors existed in the raids but where frowned upon as well as boomkins, shadow priets or elemental shammies. T1-T3 armor sets has bonuses only for tanking warriors, healing priests and shamans.
And if DPS warriors used Heroic Strike, it wasn't an issue because tanking warrior used the same Heroic Strike so they cancelled each other. :)

Today the Whirlwind is the primary threat culprit. It does too much damage for weak DK, bear and Pally AoE moves to keep up. Shockwave owns it completely but has 2x longer cooldown, so you're going to watch Omen. Maybe Howling Blast can keep up but are there frost DKs left?

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