tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5462978744516866472.post215387917551789111..comments2024-01-04T06:27:01.723-06:00Comments on Troll Racials are Overpowered: The problems of linear progressionKlepsacovichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07915576683657376929noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5462978744516866472.post-70816674757177894522011-05-11T20:03:30.689-05:002011-05-11T20:03:30.689-05:00@Sthenno: I might change that to "not get the...@Sthenno: I might change that to "not get them back soon and not without a LOT of disappointment along the way", but close enough.<br /><br />@Mangara: Unfortunately this runs into the problem of rewards to go with each level, or if they all give the same reward, it drives a race to the bottom.<br /><br />@Masterlooter: Let's imagine a bell curve, now turn it vertically and make that our raid tiers. Most players will quickly be out of the first raids and working through the middle tiers, with very few at the top. But also, very few at the bottow since most players have cleared out of there already. That means new players will be trying to form raids with garbage players (these are the extreme low end after all), who, ironically, there may not be enough of. This can be fixed by shifting the difficulty a bit so that it more closely resembles a pyramid, but that means that higher up content is blocked. Or in other words, scenario 1. Though vanilla did have some scenario 2 problems as well, since a lot of the barrier was of time rather than skill, so if a guild got over the time hump, they had [somewhat] smooth sailing.<br /><br />Maybe I should try to draw this.<br /><br />@Ngita: I don't think that illusion of progress it a bad thing by itself. Imagine if you weren't bypassing the hard boss, then you'd still hit the wall, just sooner. Though I will say that perhaps TK was badly-done, since it wasn't designed for the first boss to be skipped. That was changed later and caused some major disruptions.Klepsacovichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07915576683657376929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5462978744516866472.post-64068411281104742092011-05-11T19:17:20.384-05:002011-05-11T19:17:20.384-05:00The problem with multiple routes and skipping gate...The problem with multiple routes and skipping gatekeeper bosses is it can offer the illusion of progress. T5 was a great example, in both instance you could skip a harder boss and get a easy boss, doing so incurred a double clear of trash, but hey boss kills. By the time you did that, you might have allready burnt 1/3 your raid time for the week, then you have a few attempts against something harder people cry tired. The next raid day for the week and suprise you do not have a full raid.<br /><br />Mangara, the problem with 3 difficultys is most people only want to kill a boss once.Ngitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13526961657299848611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5462978744516866472.post-52513895018039157322011-05-11T19:17:20.385-05:002011-05-11T19:17:20.385-05:00RE: Mangara "normal/heroic versions of raid e...RE: Mangara "normal/heroic versions of raid encounters meet this goal, except that they seem to be missing the easy difficulty"<br /><br />In their current form, I would submit that they do not meet their intended goal. Currently, all players must play though normal mode raids, before heroic modes are available. <br /><br />This has the same problem of grouping all players into the same content - but with different goals. You get an odd accordian effect of players moving in and out of the same progression paths, with the only difference being speed of completion. <br /><br />Players should be seperated earlier on in the progression path AND they shouldn't reconverge, IMO.<br />Normal 5 man -> normal raids<br />heroic 5 man -> heroic raids<br />Or somesuch...Masterlooternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5462978744516866472.post-89438406777811044962011-05-11T19:15:08.545-05:002011-05-11T19:15:08.545-05:00RE: Bottlenecks and Players Missing Content - this...RE: Bottlenecks and Players Missing Content - this happens in the current system, it's not a problem exclusive to linear progression. The only difference is where the bottleneck is (Vaelastraz, or Putricide), or what content they miss (never did Ulduar, or never did ICC).<br /><br />RE: Left Behind<br /><br />If the inteneded goal is to seperate players based on skill and experience, I'm not fully understanding how a new player would be left behind. <br /><br />If we're assuming an even distribution between; below average players, average players, and above average players, then there should be enough of a population at each level to support new players - and to support players ready to jump to the next level. <br /><br />The only way they would get left behind, is if there are no players in either of the two lower echelons.<br />Scenario 1 - All players are in middle and higher tiers, meaning no low end raids available to get started.<br />Scenario 2 - Players in the low and high end, but no middle end, making for a very rough transition.Masterlooternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5462978744516866472.post-40719749867660453392011-05-11T17:18:14.225-05:002011-05-11T17:18:14.225-05:00The obvious solution to the "Players Missing ...The obvious solution to the "Players Missing Content" problem, courtesy of nearly all single-player games, is variable difficulty. Players who just want to relax and experience the content play on easy, players who like a moderate challenge pick normal and players who want to push themselves pick hard.<br /><br />The current normal/heroic versions of raid encounters meet this goal, except that they seem to be missing the easy difficulty.Mangarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08687922220543376149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5462978744516866472.post-86219374145449517532011-05-11T15:27:11.759-05:002011-05-11T15:27:11.759-05:00I think the "lolwut" solution to players...I think the "lolwut" solution to players missing content actually is the best one, but once you've forsaken it, you can't really bring it back. It's the expectation management thing. You've got to manage them up front because once people have the expectation that they get everything for nothing, you'll never get them to go back.Sthennohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05429676469805661834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5462978744516866472.post-86375522673420445082011-05-11T10:35:41.695-05:002011-05-11T10:35:41.695-05:00I'd distinguish between the last boss being a ...I'd distinguish between the last boss being a major challenge and bosses in the middle. If rag is causing a headache, well go try some BWL for a while. But if Razorgore is the problem, then the alternative is the step back to MC. Though in that case you'd probably still run it for the loot, but it's still disheartening to be stuck with no alternatives.Klepsacovichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07915576683657376929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5462978744516866472.post-27695379527322598672011-05-11T10:24:25.565-05:002011-05-11T10:24:25.565-05:00Another great post acknowledging the downsides of ...Another great post acknowledging the downsides of your proposed solution. Just a couple of things I would add based on my own experiences. "Gatekeeper" bosses can be both a blessing and a curse. For every guild that was blown up by wasting weeks on Ragnaros, or Razorgore, or Vael, there was another guild that triumphed. I had the good fortune of being in one of those that succeeded, and I can tell you, those are the BEST memories of my MMO gaming "career." I led the raid that got our first Hakaar kill in ZG. I was present for first kill's of Rag, and Razor, and Vael. And I can tell you... nothing felt better. Why? Because it was hard. Because we had to perservere. Part of the reason all my raiding accomplishments in Wrath felt meaningless was because they were too easy. <br /><br />The funny thing is, if Cata is hard like vanilla was (and it is in a sense) then why isn't it similarly fulfilling? I'm not quite sure, but it definitely isn't. Hence the reason I walked away.Aracoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12019343913755354472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5462978744516866472.post-13113127022166340632011-05-11T07:26:09.351-05:002011-05-11T07:26:09.351-05:00Thanks for looking at it from both sides. Often pe...Thanks for looking at it from both sides. Often people forget why things were changed. In this case, of course, I think that, although the classic/TBC solution wasn't perfect, it was better than the current one. And maybe that was what Blizzard wanted to find out ?<br /><br />Blizzard actually innovated a lot between TBC and WotLK. I didn't like the innovations, but they took quite a risk in changing the linear (more immersive) raiding to a everybody-on-the-same-level raiding. That's also why you hear the term 'welfare epic' so rarely these days. Today, nobody considers epics anything else, but a gamey character-power-adjustment.<br /><br />Fun thing is that subscriber-wise it still worked in WotLK (although sub-number grow has almost abruptly stopped with WotLK release!). <br /><br />But the wild mix of TBC/WotLK characteristics, that is Cataclysm, doesn't work well, I think. Cataclysm can be summarized like this: If you don't like raiding irrespective from epics, it's not for you.<br /><br />It's ironical that Blizzard destroyed the carrot that were once items. But maybe it was <a href="http://nilsmmoblog.blogspot.com/2010/11/evolution-yeah.html" rel="nofollow">inevitable</a>.Nilshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06468755466492675831noreply@blogger.com